Comments on: Critique: Rob Bell…Velvet Elvis (movement 1)

By: Stef Morgan

Stef Morgan — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 21:28:13 +0000

I’d add that the trinity IS mentioned in the Bible. The term “trinity” is not used, but when Jesus sends his disciples out (the Great Commission, specifically Matthew 28:19), He commands them to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Isn’t that the trinity as we understand it?

By: Hilary

Hilary — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:57:49 +0000

I have read the first three chapters of Mr. Bell’s book and am still unsure of what the point is. The first chapter seems to indicate that we should simply live “the way” and invite others to join us without regard to doctrine or belief. In my understanding we cannot live “the way” without the aid of the holy spirit. Though we may attempt and our lives may look good to those who would care to look, we are not living “the way” if we are not believing certain things. So far there has been no mention of sin, repentance, justification, resurrection… is Mr. Bell calling us to sanctify ourselves and others by living “the way.” I know that isn’t his intention but “Velvet Elvis” seems to be pointing us in this direction.

By: Nick Carter

Nick Carter — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:15:28 +0000

I found so many flaws in the book, I couldn’t even take the time to list them all. Thanks for this article. Well said. I posted a brief review here:
http://www.truevictories.com/2009/06/he-stinketh-my-thoughts-on-rob-bells.html

By: Melinda

Melinda — Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:07:54 +0000

Interesting posts. Thanks for explaining! I’m in France this year working with a campus ministry. Always good to hear all sides. I agree with the Fluteman. Another great book is Irresistible Revolution by Shane Claiborne. Being in France makes me think the US will turn into this if we don’t give actions to our faith. Pondering…

By: Ten

Ten — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:02:38 +0000

1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life AND doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

By: gbfluteman

gbfluteman — Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:06:09 +0000

The biggest problem I have with the orthodoxy vs. orthopraxy argument from either side or camp is that both are wrong. One should never be held or esteemed above the other. Obviously, right doctrine leads to right action, wrong doctrine to wrong action, but at the same time, you can be doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons. This is exactly what I’ve been preaching (literally) for years and what Keven Brownfield preached the other night at my church. Consider the church of ephesus (Rev. 2). Christ commends them for 5 things that they were doing rightly. The church at ephesus, if set in our modern context, would probably look like what we would call a Bible preaching, Fundamental Baptist church. They stood for truth, they didn’t tolerate sin, they perservered despite persecution, and the list goes on. But, notice Christ’s scathing rebuke. Though they were doing the right thing (orthopraxy and orthodoxy), they were doing it for the wrong reasons. They had left (literally, “divorced”) their first love. They had forgotten that the reason you keep seperate from sin isn’t because you’re more righteous than that sinful brother or sister. It’s because you love Jesus too much and you love that brother or sister too much to let them continue on in sin without showing them the seriousness of their sin. You persevere despite hard times- not because that means you can wear that perseverance as a badge of honor- but because you love Jesus too much to do any less. The list goes on. We need to be balanced in this whole issue.

However, lest you think I am saying both sides are totally wrong (as far as the context of immediate discussion on this blog), that is not what I’m saying. David, you are absolutely right. We must have right theology and right doctrine if we are to live for God rightly. All I’m saying is that we need to make sure that as we live out right doctrine that we live it out because we love Christ too much to do anything less than to live for His glory alone.

Good stuff, David. Keep them coming!

By: Geoff

Geoff — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:29:22 +0000

How do you feel about Donald Miller? I think he says things that are as ‘out there’ as Rob Bell but he doesn’t seem to get near the criticism. I like both guys, a lot. Rob is off-base with some of his thoughts, but I think he is simply challenging us to be more engaged with who Jesus is and how we should live more like him. Like many authors, I think you get out of it what you want. For fans of Rob, like myself, I don’t see him challenging Jesus’ authority or the trinity or even the virgin birth. He poses some questions and some possible differing views, but it seems he always comes back to wanting people to be more like Chirst. I simply can’t find fault with him for this. His videos have inspired me and I don’t feel that at 38 I’m going to be led astray from my ‘basic beliefs’. I don’t think Rob promotes doing right over believing right. I think what he is asking is, ‘what good is believing right if you do nothing?’ His views are ‘different’ but I don’t know that they are all that ‘wrong’. In some areas maybe, but I think Rob strives to promote thought and discussion. It has worked in me. He’s not perfect, but I’ve yet to meet ‘that person’ in the church either.

By: Maximus

Maximus — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 06:56:38 +0000

I would like to see a continuation of the topic

By: S. Laurence Guzmán

S. Laurence Guzmán — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:25:20 +0000

I think the emergents are addressing a very real problem in the church– deadness. However, their solutions focus on doing good rather than believing rightly. Of course the Bible emphasizes right living: “I desire mercy and not sacrifice”; but the foundation of right action is always a right understanding of truth. We cannot serve God properly until we rightly understand who he is (else we are serving an idol); we cannot understand who he is unless he reveals himself to us; we cannot know God’s revelation until we read his Word.

In short, in an attempt to get people to “live right,” the emergents are undermining our basis for right living: a right understanding of who God is which is found in his Word. Thats about as effective as trying to make a car faster by removing the engine.

By: john

john — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:46:53 +0000

So you want a verse for the Trinity?

Zechariah 12:10 (in a literal bible) has an interesting grammatical conundrum for anyone who doesn’t want to believe in the persons of the Trinity, here is the excerpt:

“and they shall look on me whom they pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for an only son”

I recommend the whole context, or if you don’t want to read much then verse 8+. It’s troubling me, however, that even some “literal” versions are smoothing-over this grammatical JERK by changing “Him” after God says “me” to “Him”: I’ve seen Jewish Bibles do this, and I’ve seen Chrristian Bibles that aren’t careful do this…but I’ve checked the Hebrew and this verse if challenging even to the Jews when you make them open the Old Covenant (Testament) and read it to you from the Hebrew…I would expect it would freak them out, even.

Anyways, yeah: this one is interesting…it also boggles the mind, but God did say that He’s not fully comprehensible (read Job again).

I know you didn’t want this to “go this way”, but this is short, sweet, and one of the first verses you can show people to see this. : )

By the way, the verse is the same in the Massoretic, the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia Critical Edition (i.e. KJV vs. NKJV since the NKJV uses teh Critical Edition that they’ve published…though Harry M. Orlinski-a text critic-has some searing comments on the carelessness of that edition such as using the LXX to supposedly correct the Hebrew when the LXX translation is very easily shown to, often, be from interpretative influences of Rabbis of the time which we can document, and etc.: and since disparate Scrolls from groups seperate from one another over a 1000 years, even, when reunited show…the same text! That’s incredible scribesmanship.) : )

Anyways, there’s one verse for you: I’d give more but it’s the first to come to mind.

By: Vince

Vince — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:45:38 +0000

“Jesus was not making claims about one religion being better than all other religions. That completely misses the point, the depth, and the truth.”

___
Sounds like you are reading into things a little. You can’t really assume Bell is saying all religions are equal. I think you need to understand his glossary and what he means when he says religion. He’s absolutely correct in saying it isn’t about religion.

By: N.M. Owen

N.M. Owen — Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:46:56 +0000

I was just gonna read, but now I can’t resist.

Mark says he’s going to “prove logic.”

Outstanding Mark. Way to think.

Do it.

PS – On a more substantial note, no one seems to have raised the point yet the Bell’s blurb on the Trinity essentially (if underhandedly) passes Jesus off as just being the way we speak about God incarnate, thus he denies Jesus has the eternal Son of God. For Bell, Jesus is – if you will – just the way we speak about the Father when he’s in Creation.

This is hella dangerous. Pun intended.

By: clearly

clearly — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:58:06 +0000

Perhaps we are in the presence of greatness? Please do tell…I’m still a student and ready to learn.

By: whittaker

whittaker — Thu, 27 Sep 2007 14:13:28 +0000

I could give you some lessons in basic English grammar if you would like – then maybe we could move on to theology, and perhaps even touch on exegesis. Just drop me an email.

By: Pastor Ken Silva

Pastor Ken Silva — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:18:08 +0000

Mark,

“When it comes to the Trinity, many “Christians” like fired up when it is pointed out that you can’t prove it from Scripture. One would think that if all of the other doctrines you believe are in their this one would be too.”

Not sure what you bring this up for because Bell at least says that he believes in the Trinity. And where do you think the doctrine of the Holy Trinity came from? It came from the Bible.

See – Keeping You Apprisied Of: The Holy Trinity