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	<title>Comments on: Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/</link>
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		<title>By: clearly</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator>clearly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>Rene, 

You error is couched in generosity and seeming kindness, but it&#039;s still error.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rene, </p>
<p>You error is couched in generosity and seeming kindness, but it&#8217;s still error.</p>
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		<title>By: René Barrow</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1862</link>
		<dc:creator>René Barrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1862</guid>
		<description>Nice post!

I appreciate it...so glad to hear there are more Universalists nowadays!

I was a conservative Evangelical missionary in the past...I was so conservative I didn&#039;t believe in kissing before marriage! I even called everyone who believed in Annihilation heretics - people like John Stott, Nicky Gumbel and John Wenham. I was definitely a defender of Eternal Torment.

Then I went to theological college...and read about Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Theodore of Mopsuestia, Clement of Alexandria, studied some New Testament Greek, and researched into the Early Church doctrines of Theosis, Apocatastasis and Irenaeus&#039; pre-Augustinian theodicy.

And realised...pretty simply...Evangelical theology is simply Roman Catholic theology in &#039;Saved by Faith&#039; clothing (not by Grace).

Evangelicals are just followers of St. Augustine&#039;s interpretations.

Good old Augustine of course couldn&#039;t read Greek, and believed all babies would go to hell forever unless they were baptised in water...Good old Jonathon Edwards believed that God would roast non-Christian babies over the flames of hell.


Now, I&#039;m definitely a liberal Universalist follower of Jesus!

As my conservative Evangelical friends say, &quot;There are no dumb liberals are there?&quot;

:)

All the best!

René</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post!</p>
<p>I appreciate it&#8230;so glad to hear there are more Universalists nowadays!</p>
<p>I was a conservative Evangelical missionary in the past&#8230;I was so conservative I didn&#8217;t believe in kissing before marriage! I even called everyone who believed in Annihilation heretics &#8211; people like John Stott, Nicky Gumbel and John Wenham. I was definitely a defender of Eternal Torment.</p>
<p>Then I went to theological college&#8230;and read about Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Theodore of Mopsuestia, Clement of Alexandria, studied some New Testament Greek, and researched into the Early Church doctrines of Theosis, Apocatastasis and Irenaeus&#8217; pre-Augustinian theodicy.</p>
<p>And realised&#8230;pretty simply&#8230;Evangelical theology is simply Roman Catholic theology in &#8216;Saved by Faith&#8217; clothing (not by Grace).</p>
<p>Evangelicals are just followers of St. Augustine&#8217;s interpretations.</p>
<p>Good old Augustine of course couldn&#8217;t read Greek, and believed all babies would go to hell forever unless they were baptised in water&#8230;Good old Jonathon Edwards believed that God would roast non-Christian babies over the flames of hell.</p>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m definitely a liberal Universalist follower of Jesus!</p>
<p>As my conservative Evangelical friends say, &#8220;There are no dumb liberals are there?&#8221;</p>
<p> <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>All the best!</p>
<p>René</p>
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		<title>By: NT Wright on Hell &#171; seeing clearly</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1751</link>
		<dc:creator>NT Wright on Hell &#171; seeing clearly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1751</guid>
		<description>[...] of Wrights comments about hell sound eerily similar to some of Rob Bell&#8217;s. See here and here. Is Coach Wright calling the plays in from the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Wrights comments about hell sound eerily similar to some of Rob Bell&#8217;s. See here and here. Is Coach Wright calling the plays in from the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1412</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 22:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1412</guid>
		<description>Universalism is a response to postmodernity. It gives a better image of God but we have to be careful not to go to far. Rob Bell and McLaren do not firmly believe in universalism but use it as a way so see christainity in a different light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Universalism is a response to postmodernity. It gives a better image of God but we have to be careful not to go to far. Rob Bell and McLaren do not firmly believe in universalism but use it as a way so see christainity in a different light.</p>
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		<title>By: ROB BELL, DIVINE DIRT CLODS, AND THE COMING GLOBAL FAMILY OF “GOD” - Reformata</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1411</link>
		<dc:creator>ROB BELL, DIVINE DIRT CLODS, AND THE COMING GLOBAL FAMILY OF “GOD” - Reformata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 02:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1411</guid>
		<description>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KEN SILVA AGREES WITH ROB BELL - Reformata</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1408</link>
		<dc:creator>KEN SILVA AGREES WITH ROB BELL - Reformata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Dec 2008 02:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1408</guid>
		<description>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DOCTRINES OF SPIRITISM AND ROB BELL - Reformata</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1407</link>
		<dc:creator>DOCTRINES OF SPIRITISM AND ROB BELL - Reformata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1407</guid>
		<description>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Spencer Burke: More on hell and universalism [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paw-paw (Terry)</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1403</link>
		<dc:creator>Paw-paw (Terry)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Nov 2008 02:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1403</guid>
		<description>Universalism at its best.  Everyone is OK.  I&#039;m OK - you&#039;re OK.  You can believe what you want and live like you want because in the end we&#039;re all going to heaven.  So eat, drink and be merry - it doesn&#039;t matter what you believe or what god you believe in, because we&#039;re all going to heaven anyways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Universalism at its best.  Everyone is OK.  I&#8217;m OK &#8211; you&#8217;re OK.  You can believe what you want and live like you want because in the end we&#8217;re all going to heaven.  So eat, drink and be merry &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t matter what you believe or what god you believe in, because we&#8217;re all going to heaven anyways.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1377</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1377</guid>
		<description>To see my massively huge response, go to:
http://williamkneal.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-emergent.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To see my massively huge response, go to:<br />
<a href="http://williamkneal.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-emergent.html" rel="nofollow">http://williamkneal.blogspot.com/2008/08/thoughts-on-emergent.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-1012</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think one of the reasons that they underplay is that sometimes we way overplay it. In the NT it is not always the motivation for following Jesus, the motivation is usually quite different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the reasons that they underplay is that sometimes we way overplay it. In the NT it is not always the motivation for following Jesus, the motivation is usually quite different.</p>
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		<title>By: Siew H.</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Siew H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Nov 2007 02:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/brian-mclaren-rob-bell-spencer-burke-more-on-hell-and-universalism/#comment-875</guid>
		<description>Nice.  I have read both of Rob Bell&#039;s books and I find myself with the same frustration. It completely underplays the reality of hell...and yeah. I like your last comment. It&#039;s so true, even in Cru we (we as in the organization) tend to sometimes underplay God&#039;s judgment. A little frustrating, but we as leaders have talked about it with our Bible studies before...it&#039;s a good thing to talk about. Alas, I ramble. But good write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice.  I have read both of Rob Bell&#8217;s books and I find myself with the same frustration. It completely underplays the reality of hell&#8230;and yeah. I like your last comment. It&#8217;s so true, even in Cru we (we as in the organization) tend to sometimes underplay God&#8217;s judgment. A little frustrating, but we as leaders have talked about it with our Bible studies before&#8230;it&#8217;s a good thing to talk about. Alas, I ramble. But good write.</p>
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