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	<title>Comments on: Jesus for President, part 2</title>
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		<title>By: Jeremy</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jesus-for-president-part-2/#comment-1247</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 12:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/?p=162#comment-1247</guid>
		<description>I would tend to agree with Raquel about being prone to a certain sin. I know that is true of me. There are some sins that are very easy for me to fall into, but there are some sins which are not difficult to resist. For instance, I really struggle with my tongue, but I have little temptation to abuse alcohol. I am naturally inclined towards misuse of the tongue and pride. I don&#039;t know if I was born that way or grew that way because of external influences. I consider Dave one of my best friends, but I am not attracted to him. Thankfully EmilEy has taken care of that :) That doesn&#039;t mean that some people don&#039;t struggle with homosexuality. It&#039;s a real struggle. For some people it&#039;s a major temptation which they need God&#039;s grace to pass through. I think we can encourage them in the Lord without endorsing their sin. Just like I can encourage my brother with an anger problem to allow the spirit to control him. A natural bent towards a specific sin is not horrible. The commission of that sin (in word, deed, or thought) is where the line must be drawn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would tend to agree with Raquel about being prone to a certain sin. I know that is true of me. There are some sins that are very easy for me to fall into, but there are some sins which are not difficult to resist. For instance, I really struggle with my tongue, but I have little temptation to abuse alcohol. I am naturally inclined towards misuse of the tongue and pride. I don&#8217;t know if I was born that way or grew that way because of external influences. I consider Dave one of my best friends, but I am not attracted to him. Thankfully EmilEy has taken care of that <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  That doesn&#8217;t mean that some people don&#8217;t struggle with homosexuality. It&#8217;s a real struggle. For some people it&#8217;s a major temptation which they need God&#8217;s grace to pass through. I think we can encourage them in the Lord without endorsing their sin. Just like I can encourage my brother with an anger problem to allow the spirit to control him. A natural bent towards a specific sin is not horrible. The commission of that sin (in word, deed, or thought) is where the line must be drawn.</p>
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		<title>By: Raquelamisto</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jesus-for-president-part-2/#comment-1246</link>
		<dc:creator>Raquelamisto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/?p=162#comment-1246</guid>
		<description>Clearly,

Sorry... maybe I wasn&#039;t being clear.  When I wrote &quot;accepting&quot; I meant emotionally so.  As in, my husband is flawed in numerous ways (most of which I bring to his attention more than he would prefer ;) and yet I love and accept him.

By no means am I suggesting that people who are engaging their sin ought to be in position of leadership.  Loving and accepting an alcoholic is quite different than asking them to teach that alcoholism is acceptable as a Christian.  Does that make sense?

I also FIRMLY beleive that discipline is an integral part of love.  Easy example is our kids.  If I let them be greedy, will that stop their greed?  I love them enough to let them know that it&#039;s not okay in our house to hide your favorite polly pocket.  And if they continue doing it, they don&#039;t get polly pockets for a week.  I do this because I love them.  

I hope I did a better job explaining myself this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clearly,</p>
<p>Sorry&#8230; maybe I wasn&#8217;t being clear.  When I wrote &#8220;accepting&#8221; I meant emotionally so.  As in, my husband is flawed in numerous ways (most of which I bring to his attention more than he would prefer <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  and yet I love and accept him.</p>
<p>By no means am I suggesting that people who are engaging their sin ought to be in position of leadership.  Loving and accepting an alcoholic is quite different than asking them to teach that alcoholism is acceptable as a Christian.  Does that make sense?</p>
<p>I also FIRMLY beleive that discipline is an integral part of love.  Easy example is our kids.  If I let them be greedy, will that stop their greed?  I love them enough to let them know that it&#8217;s not okay in our house to hide your favorite polly pocket.  And if they continue doing it, they don&#8217;t get polly pockets for a week.  I do this because I love them.  </p>
<p>I hope I did a better job explaining myself this time.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Miller</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jesus-for-president-part-2/#comment-1245</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/?p=162#comment-1245</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a difference between homosexual orientation and someone engaging in homosexual sex.  I do think it is possible for someone to be completely delivered from homosexual temptation, but I also think that other people will continue to struggle with it all their lives.  It&#039;s not a simple issue.

We certainly don&#039;t treat other sins the same way in the church.  Shane talks about divorce, but another statistic is premarital and extra-marital sex.  The rate of it is practically the same in churches as it is outside.  We certainly don&#039;t go ostracizing people in the same way who struggle in these areas.  Yet, if someone admits he or she is a homosexual or has those tendencies, how would we react?

The church is certainly not made up of perfect people, nor is it meant to be.  It seems we&#039;re willing to work through all sorts of issues with people, but homosexuality seems to be the thing that we get hung up on.  Why can&#039;t we trust the Holy Spirit to actually do His job and convict people and not take that burden on ourselves?

Now obviously, I think there are times when things need dealt with.  The issue in Corinth was something that Paul thought had the potential to cause real damage to the congregation.  So it seems there are times when pastors do need to confront people.  I think this has to be a case by case basis, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a difference between homosexual orientation and someone engaging in homosexual sex.  I do think it is possible for someone to be completely delivered from homosexual temptation, but I also think that other people will continue to struggle with it all their lives.  It&#8217;s not a simple issue.</p>
<p>We certainly don&#8217;t treat other sins the same way in the church.  Shane talks about divorce, but another statistic is premarital and extra-marital sex.  The rate of it is practically the same in churches as it is outside.  We certainly don&#8217;t go ostracizing people in the same way who struggle in these areas.  Yet, if someone admits he or she is a homosexual or has those tendencies, how would we react?</p>
<p>The church is certainly not made up of perfect people, nor is it meant to be.  It seems we&#8217;re willing to work through all sorts of issues with people, but homosexuality seems to be the thing that we get hung up on.  Why can&#8217;t we trust the Holy Spirit to actually do His job and convict people and not take that burden on ourselves?</p>
<p>Now obviously, I think there are times when things need dealt with.  The issue in Corinth was something that Paul thought had the potential to cause real damage to the congregation.  So it seems there are times when pastors do need to confront people.  I think this has to be a case by case basis, though.</p>
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		<title>By: clearly</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jesus-for-president-part-2/#comment-1244</link>
		<dc:creator>clearly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/?p=162#comment-1244</guid>
		<description>&quot;And of course accepting people prone to homosexuality into our churches is good.&quot;

Raquel, how do you square this with the biblical teachings on church discipline? At what point is this grounds for such action?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And of course accepting people prone to homosexuality into our churches is good.&#8221;</p>
<p>Raquel, how do you square this with the biblical teachings on church discipline? At what point is this grounds for such action?</p>
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		<title>By: Raquelamisto</title>
		<link>http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/jesus-for-president-part-2/#comment-1243</link>
		<dc:creator>Raquelamisto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:42:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://seeingclearly.wordpress.com/?p=162#comment-1243</guid>
		<description>I am of the belief that we&#039;re all prone to a particular sin (this is my running theory) more than any other.  One might call it a thorn.  Of course, we all sin in all sorts of ways but there&#039;s that one that we REALLY struggle with (or ought to, anyway).  I also beleive that we&#039;re born sinful, born weak to that particular sin (as well as the others).

And so when people say, &#039;I&#039;ve been this way since I was born,&#039; I&#039;m sure they&#039;re right!  Born prone to sin... not a surprise.  I have to agree with the author a bit, though, in that a lot of preachers POUND on homosexuality while turning their heads from other sins like gluttony or pride or divorce.  They all deserve equal attention from the pulpit - which is where I disagree with the author.

And of course accepting people prone to homosexuality into our churches is good.  Kind of redundant for the author to say that (although I&#039;m sure there&#039;s an audience somewhere who needs to hear that).  But preaching from the Bible and calling it law?  Come on, dude.  

I pray that the preachers will preach it like it is, no matter what the topic, and that the congregation will go out and allow God&#039;s transforming power to take over their lives, no matter what the sin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am of the belief that we&#8217;re all prone to a particular sin (this is my running theory) more than any other.  One might call it a thorn.  Of course, we all sin in all sorts of ways but there&#8217;s that one that we REALLY struggle with (or ought to, anyway).  I also beleive that we&#8217;re born sinful, born weak to that particular sin (as well as the others).</p>
<p>And so when people say, &#8216;I&#8217;ve been this way since I was born,&#8217; I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re right!  Born prone to sin&#8230; not a surprise.  I have to agree with the author a bit, though, in that a lot of preachers POUND on homosexuality while turning their heads from other sins like gluttony or pride or divorce.  They all deserve equal attention from the pulpit &#8211; which is where I disagree with the author.</p>
<p>And of course accepting people prone to homosexuality into our churches is good.  Kind of redundant for the author to say that (although I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s an audience somewhere who needs to hear that).  But preaching from the Bible and calling it law?  Come on, dude.  </p>
<p>I pray that the preachers will preach it like it is, no matter what the topic, and that the congregation will go out and allow God&#8217;s transforming power to take over their lives, no matter what the sin.</p>
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